보스니아 전쟁/생존기

This page was last edited on 22 April 2023, at 18:54.
< 보스니아 전쟁

자신을 보스니아 전쟁의 생존자라고 밝힌 'selco'라는 유저가 며 2011년 자신의 블로그(현재 비공개), 2012년 6월 레딧에 AMA(Ask Me Anything)를 진행하여 전쟁 기간의 생존 경험담을 공유했다.

질문 및 selco의 답변 및 전쟁에 관한 다른 증언들을 같이 정리하여 번역하고, 주제에 맞게 재배열한다. 원저자의 관점이나 견해는 90년대초 발칸 반도 정세에 기반하고 있어 현대 한국과는 시간적, 지정학적으로 어긋날 수 있음을 감안하는 것이 좋다.

블로그

내 경험을 나누고자 한다. 내가 좀 멀리 살아서 영어가 짧으니 양해를 바란다.

난 보스니아 출신으로, 92~95년 사이 여기가 지옥이었다는 것은 아는 사람도 있을 것이다. 나는 거기서 1년동안 인구 5~6만가량의 도시에서 생존했는데, 그 어떤 전기, 연료, 상하수도, 식량배급, 물자배급, 행정 및 사법체계도 없는 상황이었다. 도시가 1년동안 포위당했고 그야말로 개판이었다.[주 1]

군대나 경찰조직을 구성한 바는 없고, 자경단 조직들이 있었는데, 누구든 총을 가진 자는 자신의 가정을 지키기 위해 싸웠다. 어떤 이는 준비가 더 잘 되어 있었지만, 일이 터질 당시 대부분의 가정들은 이틀치 식량을 갖췄고 간혹 권총을 가진 집이 있었으며 AK-47은 더욱 적었다.

어쨌든 한두달이 지나니 강도단이 출몰하고, 병원은 도살장처럼 되고, 경찰력은 증발하고, 의료인력의 80%가 집에 들어갔다. 운좋게도 내 가족은 대가족이어서, 큰 집에 15명이 살았고, 권총이 5~6정, AK-47 3정이 있었다. 그렇게 대부분이 버티다 살아남았다.

미 공군이 구호식량으로 열흘마다 MRE를 투하해주긴 했는데(미국 만세다) 충분하지는 않았다. 정원에 채소를 키울 수 있는 집도 있었지만, 대부분은 그렇지 못했다.

3달이 지나자 아사, 동사의 소문이 돌기 시작했다. 우리는 빈집을 찾아 문짝, 창틀을 모조리 뜯어서 불을 땠고, 내 가구도 모두 태웠다. 병으로도 사람들이 많이 죽었는데, 대부분 수질이 나빠서였다(우리 집에서도 두 명이 병들었다). 빗물을 식수로 쓰고, 몇 번은 비둘기도 잡아먹고, 쥐도 한 번 잡아먹었다. 돈은 쓸데없었다.

암시장이 열려서 물건을 거래할 수 있었다. 콘비프 캔 하나로 여자를 몇 시간가량 살 수 있었다(잔혹하지만 현실이 그랬다). 내 기억상 대부분 절박한 애엄마들이었다. 양초, 라이터, 항생제, 연료, 배터리, 소총 탄약, 음식도 거래되었다. 그거 얻으려고 짐승마냥 싸웠다. 그런 상황에선 많은 것들이 바뀌고 사람들의 심성이 다들 추해진다. 힘은 머릿수에서 나왔다. 그런 상황에서 집에 혼자 산다면 아무리 무장을 잘 해도 강도, 살해당할 것이다.

아무튼 미국 덕분에 전쟁이 끝났고(다시 한 번 미국 만세다), 그 전쟁에서 어느 쪽이 옳았는가는 중요하지 않다. 이제 20년 가까이 지났는데, 나한테는 정말 어제 일처럼 느껴진다. 난 다 기억나고, 많은 것을 배웠다. 나와 가족들은 준비되어 있고, 나는 무장, 물자, 지식을 갖췄다. 지진, 전쟁, 쓰나미, 외계인, 테러 중에 무슨 일이 벌어질지는 중요치 않고, 뭔가 벌어진다는 것이 중요하다. 그리고 내 경험상, 혼자서는 살아남을 수 없다. 힘은 머릿수에서 나온다. 가족을 가까이하고, 함께 준비하고, 친구를 잘 고르고 그들과도 준비를 같이하라.

물물교환에 대하여

도시가 거리마다 쪼개진 느낌이 되었다. 내가 살던 거리에는 15~20집이 있었고, 남자 다섯이 무장하여 순찰을 돌며 강도나 적이 오는 것을 감시했다.

그 길거리에서 서로 물물교환을 했다. 우리 영역에서 5마일쯤 떨어진 곳에는 아예 시장이 생긴 듯도 했는데, 거기까지 가는 건 너무 위험했다. 그들은 밤에만 영업했고(낮에는 저격수 거리가 된다), 거래하러 갔다가 털릴 가능성이 컸다. 거기에 가본 적은 딱 두 번인데, 어떤 물건이 정말로 간절히 필요한 때였다.

글쓴이가 거주하던 곳

지도를 보면 보스니아는 숲이 많은 지방이지만, 나는 좀더 남쪽으로 크로아티아 국경과 가까운 도시에 살았다. 도시의 이름을 밝히고 싶지는 않지만, 보면 크로아티아 쪽 국경지대는 암석지대인 것을 알 수 있다. 도시에 나무가 심어진 공원도 있고 과일나무도 있긴 했는데, 대부분은 건물이었고, 조리와 난방을 위한 전기가 없게 되니 도시의 모든 나무가 굉장히 빨리 없어졌다. 그러고 남는 게 가구, 문짝, 마룻바닥 정도인데, 이것들은 너무 빨리 타버린다.

자동차는 거의 사용되지 않았는데, 길이 거의 다 버려진 차량, 무너진 건물 등 잔해로 막혀 있었고, 연료값이 금값이었기 때문이다. 어디로 갈 일이 있으면, 혼자서도 안 되지만 너무 몰려다녀도 안 되고, 대개 밤중에 남자 두셋이서 함께, 항상 무장하고, 매우 빠르게, 어두운 곳으로만, 폐허를 통해서, 길거리로는 거의 다니지 않고 항상 숨어서 다녔다.

우리 집에 농장이나 농사 짓는 사람은 없었다. 농장지대는 적이 점령했으므로, 우린 적군에 포위된 것이었고, 안의 도시에선 누가 적인지 알 수 없었다.

물론 조직적인 강도단도 있었다. 보통 10~15명 규모에, 가끔 50명에 달하는 규모도 있었다. 물건을 훔치고 사람을 죽이는 그 강도들도 여느 사람들과 똑같은 아버지, 할아버지, 이웃들이었다. 그 상황에선 착한 사람과 나쁜 사람이 딱히 없고, 대부분은 무엇이든 할 준비가 된 회색분자들이었다.

물자에 관하여

있는 걸 썼다. 우리는 준비도 안 되어 있었고 준비할 생각도 하지 못했다. 그러니 어떤 면에서는 석기 시대로 돌아간 것과 마찬가지였다.

우리는 그저 있는 대로 다 주워다 썼다. 예를 들자면 집에 프로판인지 부탄인지가 있었는데 이걸 요리나 난방에는 아까워서 쓰지 못했다. 이걸 담는 가스통에 작은 호스를 달아 일회용 라이터를 채우는 데에 썼는데 이게 꽤 짭짤했다. 누군가 라이터를 채워달라고 오면 그 대가로 음식 한 캔이나 양초 또는 그가 제시하는 것을 받을 수 있었다. 내가 영어를 잘 못하는데 이해가 되면 좋겠다.

또 한 예를 들자면, 나는 간호사 자격증이 있다. 그런 상황에선 내 지식도 거래품이 될 수 있는 것이다. 훈련과 교육을 강력히 추천한다. 그런 상황에서 뭔가(신발이든 사람이든) 고치는 능력은 천금과 같이 귀하다. 물건 가진 것은 언젠가 동나지만, 어떤 지식들은 그걸로 밥벌이를 할 수 있다.

이웃에는 기름등(유리병에 밧줄로 심지 꽂은 거)에 채우는 기름을 만들 줄 아는 사람이 있었는데 그 사람이 굶는 걸 본 적이 없다. 그걸 어떻게 만드는지 나한테는 전혀 알려주지 않았는데, 아마 집 뒤에 있는 나무와 디젤을 조금 갖다가 어떻게 하지 않았으려나. 모르겠다. 아무튼 뭔가 알아놓으라는 것이다. 사람들은 언제나 물건 고치는 사람을 필요로 한다.

영화적인 상황은 아니다. 다들 추했고, 살기 위해 할 일을 할 뿐이었다. 승리자는 없고, 그저 상처만 받고 살아남는 것이다.

전쟁 자체에 관하여

그 전쟁은 크리스찬 대 무슬림 전쟁이 아니라, 편이 굉장히 자주 바뀌는 내전이었다. 미안하지만 정치적인 면으로는 파고들지 않고자 하고, 별 신경도 쓰지 않는다. 종교 이야기를 할 생각도 없다. 개인적으로는 신을 믿고 그의 뜻을 따르고자 하지만, 이슬람이나 크리스트교 중 하나에 딱히 속하지는 않는다.

동료의 범위

내 동료들은 가족, 친척뿐이었다. 내가 있던 동네와 그 바깥에 친한 친구들도 조금 있었지만 가족이 가장 소중했다. 행인은 절대 동료로 받아주지 않았다.

만약 대비할 수 있는 3개월이 주어진다면

흠, 아마 해외로 도망가려나.

농담이다.

보자, 이제 일이 얼마나 빠르게 꼬일 수 있을지 아니까, 식량, 약품, 에너지 등의 물자를 6개월치 모으겠다. 나는 어느 정도 경비된 아파트에 사는데, 5마일쯤 밖에 대피소가 있는 주택도 가지고 있다. 거기에도 6개월치 물자를 채운다. 그쪽 마을은 작은 동네고 대부분이 내 친척이며, 그들 대부분이 전쟁을 겪고서 준비되어 있을 것이다. 총을 4종류 갖다놓고 탄약을 2000발가량 준비한다(미안하지만, 깊이 들어가진 못 하겠다. 여기 총포법은 이렇다).

그 집에는 큰 정원이 있고 나는 조경과 농사를 꽤 안다. 나는 문제에 대처할 지식을 나름 갖춘 것 같다. 모두가 다 괜찮겠지 할 때 일이 심각하게 돌아갈 것을 알 수 있는 것이다. 난 나와 가족을 살릴 힘이 있고 무엇이든 할 수 있을 것 같다. 모든 게 개판이 되면, 애들을 살리기 위해 나쁜 짓도 서슴지 않아야 한다. 영웅이 되는 게 목적일 수는 없고, 가족과 살아남는 것이 목적이 되어야 한다.

나는 간호사이며, 미국 기준 응급구조사 자격이 있다. 여러분들로부터도 배울 것은 배우고자 한다.

혼자서 살아남을 수 있는가

홀로 살아남기는 불가능하다. 그냥 내 의견이긴 한데, 아무리 잘 무장하고 준비해도 죽을 것이다. 내가 많이 봤다. 가족들이나 친한 친구들과 함께 많이 준비하고 많은 지식을 갖추는 것이 최고라고 본다.

준비물

케바케다. 한 가지 물건만 잔뜩 쟁여두면 살아남을 수 없고, 강도질을 해서 살아남겠다면 총이랑 총알만 많으면 된다.

총알 말고는 식량, 위생용품, 연료, 배터리가 필요하고, 주머니칼, 라이터, 부싯돌, 거래에 쓸 잡동사니가 있으면 좋다. 알코올은 많으면 좋다. 위스키처럼 도수가 높아 오래가는 것이 좋다. 종류는 상관없고 그냥 싼 것이라도 그런 상황에서 거래용으로는 굉장히 좋다.

또 불결함이 사람잡는 걸 많이 봤다. 간단한 쓰레기봉투 같은 것이 많이 필요하고 이게 쓸모가 많다. 덕트 테이프도 매우 유용하지 많으면 좋다.

무기는 간단하게 구성하라. 글록45를 좋아해서 항상 갖고 다니긴 하지만, 이 총과 총알이 여기서 흔한 건 아니니까 집에 러시아제 7.62mm TT 권총도 두 정 있다. 이 지역에선 이 총과 총알이 굉장히 흔하다. AK는 별로 좋아하지 않지만 여기선 셋 중 한 집에는 있으니..

물을 모을 때는 천장에 큰 물통을 네 개 갖다놓고 빗물을 받아다가 끓여서 소독했다. 강이야 있었지만 너무 더러웠다.

난 전문가가 아니고 나도 배우고자 한다.

내 생각엔 더러운 짓도 할 준비가 되어 있어야 오래 살아남을 수 있는 것 같다.

그러다보니 내 삶에 대한 관점도 바뀌었다. 나쁜 일이 일어날 수 있고, 가장 중요하게는 이제 정부나 권위를 절대 믿지 않는 것이다. 그들이 모든 것이 잘 될 거라고 아무리 해도 터질 일은 터진다.

빋지만 말고 공부하라.

자신에 관하여

보스니아 헤르체고비나의 종교에는 이슬람, 카톨릭, 유대교, 정교회가 있다. 일단 내가 무슬림은 아니고, 무슬림이었더라도 생존 얘기와 관련은 없으니 더 얘기하지 않겠다.

나는 전쟁에서 싸웠고 해야 할 일을 했다. 젊은 사람들이 산산조각나고, 영화에는 볼 수 없을 꼴도 많이 봤다.

이 주제와 관련없는 이야기를 시키지는 않았으면 한다. 혐오하는 사람이나 집단에 나를 연관지으려 하지 마라. 나는 혐오를 싫어하고, 그것은 사람을 결국 파괴한다. 내가 오해한 것이라면 미안하다.

전쟁에 관하여 2

전쟁은 내전이었고, 종교의 영향이 분명 컸다. 누군가 "종교가 다른 사람에게 어떻게 대했는가"를 물어보던데, 일단 내 가족 중에도 종교가 다른 사람이 있었으니 내가 어쨌겠는가?

간단하게 설명해보겠다. 그 전쟁은 내전으로, 공격자와 방어자가 있었고, 사람들은 편을 자주 바꿨다. 누가 이겨서 끝난 것이 아니라 미국이 주선한 조약에 의해 끝났다. 잘못된 이유로 일어난 잘못된 전쟁이었다. 나는 종교나 민족을 위해 싸운 것이 아니고, 나 자신과 가족을 지키기 위해 싸웠다. 지난 15년간 우리는 평화로웠고, 적이었던 사람들과 함께 지내고 있다. 나는 전쟁을 또 겪기 싫고, 민족이나 종교나 그 밖의 어떤 이유로든 적을 만들고 싶지 않다.

그 전쟁에 대해 일반화를 하려고 들지 않았으면 한다. 선한 쪽도 나쁜 쪽도 없었고, 모두가 고통스러웠으며 다시 함께 살아가려 힘쓰고 있다. 양측 다 악행을 했으며, 좋은 사람도 나쁜 사람도 소속되어 있었다.

나는 여기서 생존에 관해서만 이야기하고 싶다. 배우고, 유용한 정보를 나누고자 한다. 남의 종교적 신념, 민족, 정치적 의견에 대해서는 생각하고 싶지 않다.

전쟁 전에 도시가 어땠는지 보태자면, 보스니아의 평범한 마을이었고, 평범한 사람들, 학교, 극장, 공원, 대학, 공항, 매우 낮은 범죄율을 가졌다. 아마 미국의 여느 소도시 같은 분위기라고 행각한다. 나는 당신들과 다를 바 없는 젊은이였다.

아무튼 강조하고 싶은 것은, 내가 전쟁의 이유, 어느 편이 옳았는지, 종교나 뭐 그런 것을 얘기하러 온 것이 아니라는 것이다.

전쟁 덕분에 도시는 개판이 되었고 우리가 여기서 다룰 주제는 그것뿐이고, 오직 그것만이 중요하다. 요즘 인터넷도 잘 터지는데 전쟁 자체에 관해서는 얼마든지 알아낼 수 있고 어디 편을 들자면 그거 보고 들면 된다. 여기까지.

참고로 내 아내는 민족이 다르고 카톨릭 신자인 반면 나는 아니다. 그리고 나는 아내를 죽이지 않을 것이다.

가치있는 비축품

이 포럼의 다른 사람들은 어떨지 모르겠는데 난 지금 술을 많이 비축해두고 있다.

전쟁 초기에 전차포가 집 근처에 있던 작은 양조장(술 만드는 곳)의 벽을 부숴줘서 우리는 라키아(보스니아의 위스키 비슷하다. 포도로 만드는데 도수가 매우 높다.)를 500리터쯤 챙겼다. 거래하기 굉장히 좋았다. 절망적인 상황이라서 그런지 사람들이 술을 많이들 찾았다. 소독하는 데에도 썼다.

위생에 관해서는, 컵이나 접시는 일회용이든 플라스틱이든 무조건 많아야 한다. 물론 우리가 그걸 다 가진 것은 아니었다. 위생 관련해서는 아마 그것이 음식보다 더 중요한 문제라고 생각한다. 내 경험상 먹을 게 없으면 비둘기라도 쏴잡아 먹으면 되고 할머니가 계시다면 근처 동산에서 나물 캐는 법이라도 알려주실 텐데, 손소독제를 사냥해서 얻을 수는 없는 노릇이다.

식수 정화용 알약, 청소도구, 소독약, 비누, 표백제, 장갑, 마스크, 모든 일회용품들이 비축할 만 하고, 응급처치 교육을 충실히 받고, 베인 상처나 화상, 나아가 총상까지도 처치하는 법을 알아두는 것이 좋다. 전쟁이 나면 병원이 없고, 어디서 의사를 찾더라도 의사가 약품을 갖고 있지 않거나 그에게 뭔가를 지불해야 할 것이다. 항생제 쓰는 법도 알아두고 많이 준비하라. 지식을 많이 쌓고 약품을 충분히 준비하면 풍족해질 것이다.

금이나 은은 아주 나쁘지는 않지만, 나는 금 가진 것은 모두 탄약 사는 데에 썼고, 별로 값나가는 물건도 아니었다.

애완동물은 없었는데, 동물을 키우는 집은 꽤 있었다. 모르긴 몰라도 잡아먹은 사람이 없진 않았을 것이다.

작은 가족은 별로 좋지 않다. 작은 가족들은 친척들 중 제일 큰 집에 다 같이 모여 지내는 것이 낫다(내 경우다). 소가족이나 독신자는 야생에서는 몰라도(나는 그쪽으로는 지식이 없다) 도시가 개판이 됐을 때 생존에는 불리하다. 아무리 집에 음식을 많이 챙겨놓고 눈에 안 띄도록 지내도 언젠가는 강도들이 들이닥칠 것이고, 총을 한두 정 갖고 있더라도 어려울 것이다. 다른 사람들 눈에 안 띄는 것은 매우 중요하다고 본다. 그러나 강도들이 결국 들어닥치게 된다면 결국 머릿수도 총도 많아야 한다. 가장 좋은 사람은 가족이다.

조언을 하자면, 먼저 챙겨야 할 것은 무기와 탄약이고, 다른 모든 것은 그 다음이다. 말 그대로 모든 것을 말한다. 돈이 모자라거나 뭔가 잊어버려도 누군가와 거래해서 얻으면 되지만, 총과 탄약을 잊어버리면 거래할 장소까지 가지도 못할 것이다. 대가족이나 매우 진짜로(중요) 친한 친구들은 먹일 입이 아니라 총을 더 들려줄 화력으로 봐야 한다. 사람은 적응의 동물이다. 생각을 간단하게 하고 상식적으로 행동하라. 약한 자들은 초반에 사라지고 다른 이들이 남아 싸우는 것이다.

라이터, 양초, 부싯돌같이 작은 것부터 챙겨놓는 것이 좋다. 발전기를 챙기는 것도 꽤 좋긴 한데, 라이터 1000개가 더 좋은 생각인 것 같다. 발전기가 나쁘다는 게 아니라, 개판이 되면 발전기는 온 동네의 적들에게 관심을 끌 것이다. 라이터 1000개는 공간을 적게 차지하고, 싸고, 거래에 사용할 수 있다.

개판이 나면 사고방식부터 바꿔야 한다. 정확히 설명하기는 힘든데, 예를 들어서 설명해보도록 하겠다.

도시에서의 이동

도시 안에서의 이동은 말했듯이 항상 밤중에, 절대 혼자 다니지 말고 2~3명이서, 아주 빠르게, 주목을 끌지 말고, 평범하게 보이도록 해야 한다. 다른 사람들이 절망적이고, 가난하고, 지저분해 보인다면 당신도 똑같이 보여야 한다. 당신이 음식, 총알, 깨끗한 옷 같은 것들을 집에 많이 갖고 있다는 것을 알리고 다닐 이유가 없다. 다른 사람들과 똑같이 보이고 행동하도록 하라.

누군가가 당신이나 가족을 공격한다면 만반의 준비가 돼있다는 것을 보여줘야 한다. 난 절대로 크게 무리지어서 다니지 않았는데, 당시 많은 사람들이 한꺼번에 움직인다면 다 갱단이었기 때문이다.

장례에 관하여

그때 죽은 사람치고 제대로 장례를 치른 사람이 없다. 집 근처든 정원이든 공원 2~3군데든 남는 땅이면 어디든지 묻었다. 전쟁이 끝나고서야 대부분 발굴해서 다시 제대로 묻었다. 화장을 치르는 것을 본 적은 없다.

불에 관하여

어떤 사람들은 밤중에 몇 마일인가 요리와 난방에 쓸 장작을 구하러 갔다오기도 했다. 라이터와 성냥은 굉장히 귀했고, 주민들 대부분은 불을 24시간 때지 못했다. 사람들은 대부분 땔감, 음식, 탄약 찾으러 다니는 것이 일과였다. {/blockquote>

소금은 귀했는지?

꽤 값나갔지만 아주 귀하진 않았고, 커피나 담배가 훨씬 귀했다.

다른 도시의 사정

내가 살던 도시가 그랬고, 다른 도시의 사정을 들어보면 비슷한 상황, 똑같은 개판에 소금이 거기선 더 귀했다던가 했다. 이유는 모르겠지만 암시장이나 물류창고 같은 차이가 있었을 것이다. 뭐든 확신하지 말고 모든 것을 준비하라.

당시 무엇을 비축했는지

말했듯이 술을 많이 비축했다. 술만 있으면 무엇이든 거의 문제없이 거래할 수 있었다. 술의 소비량은 청소와 소독용으로 쓰는 것도 포함해서 평소보다 10배는 늘어난다.

아주 좋은 의견인데, 돈과 공간이 있으면 담배, 양초, 배터리, 음식을 거래용으로 저장하는 것이 좋다.

당시의 나는 그런 데에 크게 관심이 없었고 준비할 시간도 없었다. 그 지경이 나기 며칠 전까지만 해도 TV에 나오는 정치인들은 모든 것이 괜찮을 거라고 말하고 다녔고, 일이 터졌을 때엔 그냥 보이는 것부터 챙겼다.

식사는 어떻게 했는지

개판이 나기 이전에는 요리와 난방에 전기를 썼다. 그러니 일이 터지고서 물건을 좀 팔아서 낡은 장작 화로를 구해다가 부엌에 놓고 배기관을 뚫었다. 그것으로 요리와 난방을 했다. 여름에는 뒷마당에서 요리를 했다. 운좋게도 벽돌담장으로 둘러싸인 곳이었다.

음식의 냄새로 말할 것 같으면, 한번 묘사해보겠다. 전기가 없고 상하수도가 몇 달씩 끊기고, 무너진 집들에는 시체가 있고 먼지때가 껴 있는데, 그런 상황에서 뭔가 좋은 냄새를 맡기는 힘들다고 봐야 한다. 영화같은 장면은 없고, 그저 추하고 더럽고 냄새난다.

요리 관련해서 문제가 있던 적은 많지 않다. 말했듯이 사람이 적당히 많고, 잘 무장하고, 방어할 의지가 있으면 그 정도 문제들은 다 감당할 수 있는 정도다. 야생이었으면 좀 달랐을 것이다.

보통은는 나물 같은 걸 넣은 전을 부쳐 먹었다(식용유가 필요없고 장작을 적게 쓴다). 물론 거래해서 얻는 식량이라면 뭐든 먹었고, 쌀도 장작을 적게 써서 좋았다.

나 정도면 운이 좋았던 것 같다. 비둘기 같은 희한한 것을 먹은 적은 많지 않다. 항상 거래할 물건과 총이 있었고, 그것 덕분에 살아난 것 같다.

저격 피하기

일단 주간에는 저격수들 때문에 아무도 나다니지 않았다. 전선이 너무 가까웠기 때문에, 볼일이 있으면 밤에 나가서 거래하고, 장작을 찾고(매우 중요하고 어려운 일이었다), 이것저것 뒤져보고, 사람을 만나고, 뉴스를 들으러 가곤 했다. 아주 중요한 점이 있는데, 사람들이 그냥 밖에서 무슨 일이 일어나는지 구경하려다가 많이들 죽었다. 라디오도 TV도 없으니 소문에 많이들 의존했다.

말했듯이, 집에만 있으면 추위와 배고픔으로 죽거나, 작은 생채기 때문에 감염으로 죽을 수도 있으니, 목숨을 걸고 밖에 나가 물건을 찾거나 거래해야 했던 것이다.

집에 상황이 발생한 적도 있다. 딱히 설명할 건 없고, 그냥 우리에게는 벽돌담과 더 많은 총이 있었다. 또 우리는 자경단 같은 것이 있었는데, 내가 살던 거리 사람들은 잘 조직되어 있었고 강도들이 보이면 총격전을 벌이곤 했다. 도시에서는 총격전이 많이 벌어졌다. 처음에는 총이 별로 없었다. 소총 하나와 2차 세계대전 때의 권총 한 정, 총알 100발 정도였는데, 나중에 물물교환으로 소총과 탄약을 더 얻었다. 차량배터리 하나로 소총 2정을 산 적도 있다. 총알은 많을수록 좋다.

대개의 경우 피아구분이 힘들다. 내 가족과 몇몇 진짜 친구들 외에는 모두가 잠재적인 적이다. 당신의 친구가 자기 자식의 죽음과 당신의 죽음 중에 선택해야 할 때 누구를 고르겠는가.

소문 중에는 몇 블록 건너에 있는 어떤 늙은이가 통조림을 갖고 있고 탄약 같은 걸 구하고자 한다는 게 있었다. 내가 물건 찾으러 어디 나갈 일이 많을 거라고 말했는데, 다른 사람들도 그건 마찬가지라서, 내가 사는 거리 쪽으로 거래하러 오는 경우도 있었다. 밤에는 폐허가 된 스포츠센터에 시장이 열리기도 해서, 거기서 물건을 사고팔 수 있었다. 다만 상황통제가 안 되니 상당히 위험했다.

꽤나 원시적으로 살았다. 집 주변엔 벽돌담을 치고, 창문과 문에는 모래주머니를 쌓고, 모래주머니 위에는 철판이나 돌 등을 쌓고, 집 안쪽으로는 온갖 잡동사니를 쌓아놓고 총 쏠 작은 구멍만 내었다. 가족 중 항상 다섯 명은 전투대기 상태였고, 항상 한 명은 집 밖에 숨어서 망을 보았다.

저격당하지 않기 위해 낮에는 집에서 지냈다. 밤에 활동하는 저격수는 별로 없었지만, 밤이라도 거리를 대놓고 돌아다니진 않았고, 피할 수 있으면 피하고, 지름길과 폐허를 가로질러 빠르고 조용히 다녔다.

위생에 관하여

위생용품은 뭐든지 귀했고, 휴지도 귀했다. 시간이 좀 지나고부터는 사람들이 강도보다는 불결한 환경에서 병을 얻어 죽는 일이 더 많았던 것 같다.

바리케이드

깜빡하고 언급을 안 했는데, 우리 동네 길거리는 폐차로 바리케이드를 쳐 놨었다.

용변의 처리

집 근처 빈 땅에 해결하고 삽으로 덮었다. 지저분하게 들리고 사실이 그렇다. 빗물 받은 걸로 닦았다. 가끔은 강가에도 나갔다(보통은 너무 위험했다). 대부분의 시간 동안 휴지는 없었고, 있었더라도 거래에 썼을 것이다. 상황이 쭉 좋지 않았다.

무기 소지에 관하여

전쟁이 끝나니까 모든 집들이 전쟁 때 얻은 총을 갖고 있었다. 그래서 경찰들이 분명 불법무기를 단속하고 다니긴 했는데, 만약을 대비해서 많이들 무기를 어딘가에 숨겨두었다.

나는 합법적으로 소지하는 총기가 있는데, 여기 정부는 임시 수집제도 같은 것이 있어서, 폭동, 소요사태 등 사변에 정부가 합법 무기들을 잠시 가져갈 수가 있다. 그래서 거기에 신경쓰면서 적당히 처신한다. 어떤 사람들은 합법 무기를 일상적으로 휴대하기도 한다(나는 글록 45와 타우루스 38이 있다). 그런데 어떤 합법 무기 소지자들은 불상사나 '임시 수집'에 대비하기 위한 불법무기를 따로 어디에 숨겨놓기도 한다.

상황이 터지고 맞바꿀 괜찮은 물건을 갖고 있다면 무기를 얻는 것은 어렵지 않다. 그런데 다른 것이 중요하다. 사태의 첫날이 가장 혼란스럽고 무질서하므로, 총을 구할 시간이 없을 수 있다. 그리고 그런 상황에서 무기가 없는 것은 좋지 않다.

내 경우 총을 판다는 사람이 차량 배터리와 라디오를 요구하길래, 그렇게 거래했다.

부상에 관하여

물론 상처는 대개 총상이다. 전문가 및 다른 약품이 없고 의사를 어디서 찾아온다고 치면 생존률은 30%쯤 될 것이다. 다시 말하지만 이것은 영화가 아니고, 대부분 죽게 된다. 찰과상이 감염으로 발전해서 많이들 죽었다. 난 3~4회분 항생제가 있었고, 물론 우리 가족 전용이었다.

별 것도 아닌 것에 사람이 죽는다. 수분 보충과 약품 없이는 설사로도 사람이 죽는다(fluid therapy, IV). 특히 어린이들이 그런 것으로 죽는다. 곰팡이성 피부병, 식중독도 방심할 수 없다. 대부분의 질병들은 근처에 나는 약초들을 썼다. 상처에는 라키아를 붓고 항생제를 찾아보곤 했다. 말하자면 나는 상처의 응급처치에는 능했지만, 장기적인 치료에는 예후가 나빴다.

깨달은 것이라면 역시 위생의 중요성, 그리고 많은 약품, 특히 항생제다. 응급처치법을 많이 알아야 한다. 온라인으로 교육도 받고, 응급치료술(EMT)을 배우면 좋다. IV 여는 법, 특정 약물이나 항생제의 사용범법을 배워라. 파상풍 예방주사도 맞고, 뱀독 해독제, 아드레날린 킷(알레르기 반응 등에 사용, 종류는 여러 가지로), 진드기 없애는 킷도 필요하다. 진드기로도 사람이 죽는다.

또 창고에 작은 산소 실린더와 BVM 마스크 등 응급소생용 물품을 적당히 챙겨라. 그 정도 물품의 사용법은 어렵지 않다. 물론 이런 것들은 응급구조, 간호사, 의사면허 같은 교육이나 자격증이 없다면 함부로 사용하는 게 불법일 수 있다. 그런데 개판이 난 상황에서는 자격증 따질 사람이 없으니 그냥 사용법 배워서 챙겨 놓으면 된다.

내가 상처를 어떻게 치료했냐면, 거의 항상 가진 게 없어서 있는 걸로 때우고, 음식이나 다른 물건을 값으로 받았다. 그 때는 준비가 덜 되었었지만, 지금은 잘 갖춰놓고 있다.

미국의 공수물자

USA drop not only MRE, there was few types of things, MRE dropped seperetly, i quess drop something like big box full of MRE (300-500) that box attached on parachute fall apart on some altitude and then rain of single MRE second kind was a parachute with big pallete, most of the time there was flour inside, a lot of flour.I remember also pallete full of some kind of cookies or biscuits, in small metal containers. I never picked anything except food, i heard stories about boxes of clothes and all other stuff, i never seen it, again rumors raged.

Anyway they did not come on some schedule, we never know when, and it was not organized at all, it was first come first gets, more precise more armed gets more.

화폐는 쓸모가 있었는지

No, not really, i mean sometimes you can use foreign money if you had it to buy something, (dollars or German marks) but even in that rare occasion rate was unbelievable for examples 1 can of beans for 30-40 dollars (normal value was maybe 0,50) i quess somebody had connections with outside world, black market you know, so he can earn lot of money.But it was very rare. Trade was main thing to get something.

Local currency crashed very fast, in few weeks or month maybe.

강도를 덜 당하는 법

I am sure you are very well prepared. Now this was my personal experience, maybe my situation was specific, it was only one town during the four year war, and it was completely cut of from everything and everybody for about 1 year. Difference is that most of us was not prepared and aware what is gonna happen . Again from my experience: if you are alone in the town in SHTF, do not wall your self, do not put fancy armored door, bulletproof windows, i suggest, tear down your wall, crash your windows, take old clothing and broken LCD tv garbage and put it on your lawn, take some dead animal dog or cat maybe, and put it on your lawn for stench. To make story short- do everything so your house look robbed, empty and non interesting.(most of the people do not go in already stripped house, especially with stench of dead things) Of course before all of this invest some money in good basement, with hidden entrance, air filtering your stock, your weapon and you inside, use night time to go out and survive. This is only suggestion, i don t know for sure of course.

Maybe is better thing to offer your specific skills to some friends or family and move in.

독사

No i am not familiar with this device,as far as i know, venom spreads too fast through tissue, i don t think you can suck it. I was thinking about drug against snake venom,(injections) we here only have two types of venomous snakes, be familiar with types of venomous snakes in your surroundings and find right drug and right dosage.

가치 있는 물건

Just like most of the things, these things you could find if you have something interesting to offer, but i remember formula was very very expensive to trade. Fuel was hard to find i remember that. Real problem was that babies and small kids are more sensitive to lack of hygiene-diseases, if you do not have enough really clean water weakest gonna be sick first, if you don t have meds or don t know to treat them you are in problem.

So, yes people are bartering for that too, but it was constant struggle to find it, trade it, bring it home... So i think, bigger storage, smaller problem.

강도를 당하지 않는 법 2

Again it was no rules, as i say before low profile, we concealed everything, if i had nice pair of boots during my walk i kept em dirty, nobody look well, nobody wants to look well, nothing was organized, trade worked based on street news( correct word?) OK it worked like this, if i want to get MRE for example i waited for dark, i took rifle, pistol, knife, dark jacket and boots lot of ammo but not too much to slow me so i can run, my brother same, and we re headed at the first barricade (car wreck) in my street, two guys from my street watched always there for potential trouble, i ask them did they hear anything about any MRE for trade somewhere near, sometimes they heard sometimes not. If i judge that worth risk i ll go there and trade, in that other street few other guys watch for that other street and i trade with them, or they can tell me who had MRE in that part of town.

There was something like "trusted" people for trade, other not, some part of town were more dangerous, other not, no rules. Even rates for trade are changed very often, example, if planes drop food twice this week MRE is probably going to be cheaper for trade.

It was constant risk with everything, potential trader never knows is other trader going to kill him or trade with him, first few minutes two people(strangers) talked hidden behind rubbles 30-40 meters apart, and then after some faith is gain we traded.

We never took more then few things to trade, more things to have means more risk.

We did not concealed our weapon, two armed guys looking poor, we did not want to be target, if we see larger group of people, we hide. Well good question, but i think i am missing some English words in my vocabulary to express some feelings

Of course , same like everything else, i mentioned few times in some aspects of life it was stone age, no dentist mean lot of trouble, i knew man few blocks away, who was pulling teeth with pliers (electrical), wash mouth with rakia , then put mixture of local herbs, of course after this treatment you instantly need antibiotics.Cost for this was few cigarets, and he veterinarian. So again lot of infections.

.

Jako hrabra izjava prijatelju.

U neka druga vremena ovakve bi se izjave riješavale na drugaciji nacin, hajde ako su ti roditelji kako tvrdis ili neko od tvojih iz mojih krajeva onda bi razumjeli ovo.

Hello again, these few words above are for that guy who said that his parents are from my area, so that is not going to be problem for him.He also states i am fake, and no that words above are not insulting in any way, i am not doing that never

I just came home from night shift and i found some disturbing things (i am gonna said insults) because if somebody tells you that you are fake, i believe that is insult.

I wanted at first to lave this forum forever, but trough my expirience i ve learned what is tolerance and patience. A to be honest there is a lot great stuff here, i don t wanna go

So i have suggestion, i can t go public with my proofs,it is complicated why, yes i am new to the forums of any kind, no i am not new to english (i did not use it few years) and NO i am not fake.

Anyway i think you always gonna have doubt in me, so i suggest few things: i think administrators of this forum can easilly check my IP adresses, then if administrator think i have some value on this forum, i ask him, i call him , let him adress me trought private message and i can provide him some info, after he read that, i sure he is gonna be sure i am not fake, sorry guys i live here in different world and i can not go in public with some things, so i am gonna tell-write that stuff only to administrator, i belive it is gonna stay between me and him, and i think you are gonna all belive his judgment

any way thank you very much (it mean a lot to me) to all who think that my english is great, i always think somebody going to mock on my wrong phrases, i know my grammar is not great, but i am doing my best

And yes for unknown words i am using online croatian-english dictionary, i put a link below http://www.englesko.hrvatski-rjecnik.com

And don t be confused, Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian it is same language, few different words and phrases, i guess like difference between states in USA.

Anyway if administrators do not have interests in that conversations with me and i leave this forum, just keep this in mind :be prepare, be also mentally prepared, it is not like in movie at all.

Thank you and bey, or goodbye.

질문을 받는 이유

Thanks for nice words

I belive there are two reasons for people to think i am not real.

Maybe i am not introduce my self enough, so i try to do that now, with limited info.

I am learned english language 8 years in elementary school, then 4 years in my medicine school (nursing school), then i had some luck to get a job which involves actively use of english language, at that job i took and finished EMT training ( USA standards) and finshed ACLS, PALS, PHTLS, BLS instructor, AMLS courses, nurses and EMTs knows what kind of courses are, not important for non medical people to explain.

I like Simpsons i hate reality shows

I like blues and rock, i like Apocalypse now and Full metal jacket (old things but great)

Almost every younger man in my country understand English language, maybe 30 % of them can write and conversate pretty good, as i already said i had luck to use it actively few years. Anyway i did not use it for few years.

Second reason, most of the people just can not believe some things can happen in normal world, before that happen we have normal life, like most people in Europe, we was not some strange folks from strange country far far away, we had a decent life, apartment, car, summer vacation on sea cost, movies, concerts.. when all happens.

I am trying to say here, sh.. can happen anywhere, to anyone, in any country and system, i believe too sh.. can happen to all of us together at the same time.

Now again i have something like normal life, normal job and family, situation in my country is pretty much confused, with lot of corruption, high unemployment, political confusion , high crime rate and similar things.

Some folks thinks maybe i have some hidden reasons to write my posts, and i am lying. Reasons for me to be here are: I am just like everybody else here interested in survival and prepping theme, also i noticed trough some posts, and of course movies and some books wrong perception of SHTF (again it is my opinion only), there is something like romantic (romanticied?) SHTF, or something like that. That perception is joke, and i belive it is dangerous to preparing your mindset basing on that perception.

On the other side i can talk only based on my expirience, maybe i am wrong for some future SHTF, for example i do not know nothing about wilderness survival, living in woods, camping hiking and things like that, it is funny because most of my country is in woods and mountains

People, i am sharing my expirience with you, my mistakes, my bad judgments, trough your comments and your questions i wanna learn things for next SHTF, i did not came here as smartest guy on forum.

So to conclude this, if you do not like my posts, do not read it anymore, if you think i am fake, go away from this posts please.

To all others ho like my posts, thank you for reading it.

AND at the end of this post, one picture worth 1000 words, so i will put two pictures how it looked (i quess everyone can acces my album in my profile) i did not took that pictures, those are not pics of my town (i have reasons to not mention my town or put pictures of it), they are pictures of town 100 miles from my town with similar situation like in mine(in some ways they where better organised) remember this: it was normal town, normal people, like most cities in world.

thank you

Not bad at all You sad this: Do not worry about internet "bullies" on this pages, most of them wanna be a kind of Rambo. Rambo is an american movie about... ( rest is not making sense, there is two words, monkey and candy, ) probably you used automatic translators,It is very hard to use automatic translators with bosnian-croatian language, lot of mistakes due to hard grammar.

also when you sad "my croatian is correct" correct is: "moj Hrvatski je ta?an?" Anyway , understandable and good.

As far as i can remember, not to much accidental fires, but on the other side there was a lot intentional fires due to firing, and also we here traditionally do not have wood houses in town, almost always it is different type of brick.

Constant shelling did that, and during the night people took whatever they can use, for fire, shelter etc. Mine constant job was stripping wooden floor from abandoned buildings for fire wood, i remember that was hell of job because it burned very fast (politure i guess)

it was yellow color, sometimes brown, i do not know from what he made oil, mixture of couple of things i think, he jelously keeped the recipe, lamp was rudimentary thig, put the 10 cm. of shoestring through bottle cap (aluminum i think) dip that in cup of that oil, shoestring is 2-3 cm above cap, everything else is dipped in oil.

It smells horrible, and gives a lot of black smoke, but it lights.

Of course we could use cooking oil for this, but most of the time it was too precious.

Mostly men used guns, but my family in that house was big, and there is no needed to woman to use gun, in other houses maybe was different situation, so , no rules.

Again it depends, when we have enough food and other things we tried to keep normal life during the day in house, but mostly in that period night and day switched places.

Well to be honest i did not never before, but in last 2 days few other people ask me that, don t know, it would be a great challenge for me, i could not use real names, real cities, even i could not mention real world. Maybe fictional states and cities and fictional war, only real situations?

And somebody ask me about, night visions and guns . It was pretty much basic list of weapeons, like for pistols it was 7,62 and 7,65 red flag pistols ( copies of Russian guns), ak 47 (serbian version, good rifle in that time) then PAP rifle (serbian semi automatic rifle, good rifle with fixed bayonet and nice tromblon option -or grenade launching option) lot of combinations of hand made weapon and real weapon, like hand (bomb) grenade trowing device, we called it "drunk man" it is basically slingshot with bomb-hand grenade( sounds funny i know)

Of course lot of knives, axes, guy from my street even had a spear, i dont know did he ever use it

No i did not see night vision devices at that time, not on our side.

About alcohol first, you right but you are right in booth ways, people need alcohohol more in desperte times then usual, so it is kind of gambling i guess , it is very good item for trading, i never had problems with alcohol trading and having than problems with trading other things.

Also i am thinking about something else, maybe it is better to fill my storage with something less space consuming but still interesting for trade, like batteries, antibiotics etc. Thing is i had all that alcohol for free, i did not buy it.I don t know about this.

In most of the situations people attack me because they think they are stronger, they did not know for sure what i really had.

About ammunition trade, it depends how much ammo you are going to have, sometimes i trade ammo for food, and in few weeks again food for ammo, but i never never do trade at my home, and never bigger amounts, very few people knowed how much of anything i had in my house. The point is store as much of anything as you can store (space , money) later during the situation you ll see what is most popular, correction ammo and guns always gonna had 1 place for me, but who knows maybe number 2 for trading gonna be for example masks with filters.

About medical issue , i ll write in my next post what do i have now in my medical part of storage


Defence were very primitive, again we were not prepared, we use what ever we could, windows were broken, roofs mostly damaged from shelling, all windows were blocked with something, sand bags and rocks,every night i blocked my yard gate with junk- rubble from the street and i use old alluminium ladder to get over the wall, when i come back i called somebody from house to get me that ladders so i can move in.

Guy from my street barricaded his house completely, if he go out at night he use a hole that he maded in one room that is connected with neighbor s house, and go trough his (ruined and destroyed) house out, actually he had secret enterance.

It may look weird to say but most secured houses are gone first, of course we had some very nice houses in neighborhood, with walls, dogs, alarms, steel bars on windows, alarms. And you can quess what happened, mob attacked those houses first, some were defended other not, depend how many guns and hands thea have inside.

So i think security is great, but be sure that you keep it low profile, forget about alarm, if you live in town and SHTF you gonna need simple looking non interesting secured house, with lot of guns and ammunitions. Just keep it low profile and not interesting.

On my apartment door now i have steel door for security reason, but only to keep me trough first short period of chaos, then i am moving out to connect with bigger group of armed people (family and friends) in the country (i hope)

Well in my case migration did not happen because it happen very fast, other army just closed city in ring and that s it, if you ask me where was that army and how we did not seen them coming, the answer is simple, that army was an ally of army of my side and people, and one day we woke up and figured they are enemy now and they are closing all ways out. Politics . It is true, one more side of civil war.

But i heard from others parts of country, and my frends who stayed in villages in the other parts in state, that they have much better situations,countryside had land,corn,wheat, fruit trees, farms etc they had enough food, it was bad, but much better than in city.

I know one thing if we had some way out from the town, we would use it, we did not have it.

You right with one thing, topics, i am getting overwhelmed with questions and i keep forgetting to answer some question, some other themes are to complex for me (like bank accounts, loans, and hyperinflation,) and to answer only that i need like 5-6 pages. On the other hand i check some of the stuff from that Argentine guy,i did not read book, i found one article from his book ( free), yes a lot of similar things but some other different too. I believe guy is describing collapse due to economic reasons, i am describing collapse due to war and siege, and some of the things are completely different.

But yes main problems are same, food, shelter, security... I believe they had collapse on larger scale, (territorial) but i also believe we had completely switch on the middle age society for one period of time. I just can not compare it with any movie, i mean forget about small little communities doing fine, and they all have leader who is wise, while whole world falling apart around them, but i have read one book (fictional) few years ago, and i like the way that author described how people mindset changing during SHTF, and what are they willing to do for their own, i found it pretty much accurate in that part, so to all, check that book :John Christopher- Death of grass

I promise i ll try to answer all of your question, i ll even try to form some topics, chapters or something like that.

Thank you

About banks, loans, credit cards. Complete monetary system died for about one year, so nothing works. It is complex question in many ways, i ll try it to answer it in some future posts, need much more time and much much more space to describe it. Even now almost 20 years later folks are at European court suing banks, because they dont want to admit their savings in banks, lot of different things happened in that period , they changed money, i mean monetary name, they changed it 2-3 times , hyperinflation occurs, lost of paper trails about savings, loans ... i remember some people use that situation to get rich, they still rich So i ll try to describe that in separate post.

There was a lot problems with proving people s property after everything, for example: my father had nice apartment and because war he must leave it, after war ended he was at court for about 4 years proving that apartment was his, reasons for that were different, because politics in that time, but also he did not have enough paper work to prove that apartment was his (he did not took papers from apartment when he fled, he had more important things to care) On the other side during the worst period, people just moved in empty house, and that s it. I mention rural areas in other post. As far as i remember it was better there.

In that period there is not running vehicle, actually i remember tank at the front line, and Lada Niva ( check it on web) with cut of doors and roof and installed machine gun ( i think it was an old m53) and those two only moved when they fired( they keep it hidden behind ruined houses) For let me call it "civilian population" there was no moving with vehicles, streets were mostly under rubble and unusable and fuel was too expensive.

Not to draw attention was a big thing, about clothing, there use to be some sort of town defense, it was not like real military,mostly mixed civilian clothes with part of uniforms, different weapon, so no rules. But as soon as go in to that things and try to talk about two armies, their strength, war crimes, politics i am not gonna like it any more, because people gonna start to choose sides, and i think it is not important for us here.

As i sad before there was not organized army, but we all been like soldiers, we had to, most of us carry weapon and try to protect from enemy army and robbers.

Inside the town you did not want to look fancy because somebody shoot you and took your good stuff, you did not want to have fancy rifle, because probably you not gonna find ammo in that caliber and also you are drawing attention.

So let s me try to put it this way: if SHTF tomorrow, i will try to look like most of the people outside, scared, desperate, confused and i ll scream maybe, no fancy looking stuff, i ll not go out in fancy new uniform and yell "I am here, you are finished now looters and robbers" I ll stay low profile, heavily armed and well prepared waiting to see my options, even if i have to go out with all my gear to do things i ll go in night, with best friend or brother. Maybe sounds ridiculous, but from my expirience it works, be wery well prepared, but let nobody outside your house know or see that.

No matter how good is your house security, how good is your weapon, if people see that they have good reason to rob you they probably rob you in town SHTF, it is only matter of time and number of guns.Don t ever give them reason to be interesting for robbing. Stay uninteresting. Now this is my opinion, maybe is not working in different situation.

About robbing grocery store and gas stations, it happened very very fast, as soon as shooting started all valuable things was emptied, there vas some effort of authority to keep it together but everything fall apart in first weeks.

Good question Of course there was some signs, but we did not see it, or we did not wanted to see it. Some major figures left town before everything started, we knew that, i seen that, we just could not believe that kind of things can happen to normal people. I quess it is in human nature that some things can not be comprehended.Maybe i ve seen that something bad is gonna happen, i just keep (like most people) saying: "oh at the end they will fix that"

I think next time gonna be easier for me to see that something is coming. I believe that most important thing is to accept fact that bad things can and eventually will happen. And of course i don t believe to much to main media, i rather go online and try to research things and separate facts from lies.

You see situation in my country (and in most surroundings countries) now is : Crime rate is increasing, unemployment is going mad, there is feel of desperation, prices of food and fuel constantly going up, politicians are corrupt more than ever, drugs, gangs. So i would be idiot now to to say : "Oh somebody will fix everything" I think there s more chance that everything going to explode trough some kind of collapse.

No not really people like honest brokers, i mean there was not anything like guy who is honest and who had lot of things so i can visit him, just rumors, and word on the street where i can get something. There was a few guys like "rich guys" who had luxury stuff, but they were untouchable, something like "war lords"

But if you ask me can you be something like "big guy" in times like that, i quess answer is yes, if you have enough people,firearms,black market connections, and knowledge i mean info . They called "war profiteers" and some of them get rich in that times,some of them are still making decisions.

No it is not too personal at all. Reasons are very simple, and there are few of them. First we live close to our work place, i live actually something like 1 mile from my workplace, second our villages are pretty much different from your countryside, they are much more rural, and to live in the village, and work in the town is much more expensive if you want to live normal life (especially with the kids). So to be short, it is easier for now, and yes i am scared to be trapped again in town,i am preparing things so i can be ready to leave everything and run to countryside in a sign of trouble.

People owned mosty ak 47 actualy it was serbian issue, m70, folding stock version was better for streets, then was semi automatic PAP rifle ( good for hit someone, i mean with stock, heavy rifle, but precise, nice bayonet) it was safer to launch granades from PAP then from AK Of course there was a m48 rifles, younger people did not like it, most of them was rusted, i never used it to shoot at someone , but i ve seen some folks doing some amazing shots with that, yes some were with sniper.

But i have used for month semi automatic CZ (ceska zbrojovka) with sniper, very good, easy to use, very light, small caliber 22, also great for street , when i could not find ammo for that anymore i trade it sleng was:

ak47-ciganka ( pronounced like tzigakha, means gipsy woman) m48- tandzara (pronouced like tanjara, means thick stick) TT pistol- pracka, means slingshot


I was not some weapon expert, i used what i had, even now i am not expert, now i have what i like.

Forgot to mention you, lot of folks used do cut of the stock and barell from that m48, it looked like mad max gun but useful only maybe to 50-60 meters, for streets again.

Me and my family in that time were like "middle class" we did not starve to much, had some bad days with food but not too much, i was (like everybody else ) on constant search for food (and everything else), few potatoes, some rice, green salad from garden, cans and powdered eggs (luxury) we cooked when we had fire wood, then again for a week or two only local herbs (i don t know name, it is cow food i think) older folks pick that, it is looked just like ordinary grass to me, it did not have any taste at all. Most of our family eat together, we share everything, we were family. Generally speaking our health was poor, mostly due the cold during the cold months, bad food and of course bad water, each member suffers diarrhea for a longer period more or less. Whenever i recall memories about that period first things that came on my mind are not guns or security problems, i always remember cold and smell .

I was something about 65 kg in that period, now i have 95kg. I am 185 cm high. I lost 15 teeth in that and right after that period. I had skin problems for 3 years after that. Not to talk about psychological issues. I am fine now

One more thing Man i like your avatar, i believe that scene goes like this: Bart: dad i believe you just shot zombie Flanders Homer: Uh, he was a zombie?

It is Halloween special, i don't know part

Simpsons rules

You have right with this, traditionally people consume alcohol in big ammounts here at Ballkan region, i am something like occasionally drinker, beer mostly.

So here it make sense to store alcohol in case of SHTF , again it is matter of space and money. And in depressing situations people drink much more. One more thing, in SHTF addicts are still addicts, drinker stays drinker, smoker stays smoker and drug user stay drug user, some of them just gonna find some easier ways go get their stuff.

Oh and i keep forgetting to mention, tobacco, store it as more as you can, if you in a struggle for money like most of us store it in a cheaper form that you have there. For example i am smoker, i was smoker in those time, and i smoked some pretty bad tobacco in that time, still i trade some good things for that tobacco. Cigarettes were like second valute(monetary) sometimes. If we wanted to express worth of some thing, we express it in guns, cigarettes or sometimes foreign money.

So it is not important do you smoke, have and store lot of cigarettes, cheaper ones, it does not matter kind, nobody will choose to much.


I completely agree with you about drug and alcohol usage, i mentioned i work in ER, i know what alcohol and drugs doing to the people and whole families. Also i am father so i am always concerned about that things.

On the other side if i can give you advice for some future SHTF it is gonna be: do not be sure in anything what you believed prior to SHTF.

It is gonna be situation that gonna required some hard choices, everyone of us will have to choose, understanding of good and bad can be messed up.

I must say ,i never robed anyone, never kill someone for food or something like that. But also i never have to do that. I always managed to find other ways to do that, harder ways always. Easier thing to say now is i ll never gonna do bad things in similar situation. True is you ll never now what you going to do in that situations and how far you are going to go to protect and feed your family. Prepare for everything.

Please do not take this too personal, you see i found your arguments normal and noble, and i share it too. Just keep in mind that good people gonna be forced to do bad things in order to keep family alive. Is that making them bad people? I don t know, maybe. Good and bad can pretty much mixed in that situations.

I guess as i said, each and everyone of us will have to choose.


Thank you for opening some good questions for thinking, for all of us.

Prior that war there were different law about owning a weapon, so very few citizen had legal weapon, on the other hand few months before war black market started with selling guns and rifles, prices were high, i think now that was another sign that s something wrong going to happen.As far as i can remember there was not anything like confiscating legal weapon.

Now the law is different, it is pretty much easy to get license and buy weapon (legal), but they made a law which they call "temporary collecting" It states that government have right to collect all legal weapon from citizens in case of some happening (they say riots, unrest's, happenings like that, but they are not to precise, so i guess they can confiscate it whenever they want)

Yes there was some. Everything from "stone age" things like pieces of concrete wall above yard door (not in use door for hiding group), grenades in glass cups with pin taken out, bombs on move (i don't know English word, simple bomb with rope, activating with your leg,) small mines buried or taken beneath leafs or peaces of rocks, we call it "paste" mines, not too strong, usually took took your foot off, ih you had good boots not even that. There were not so much sophisticated explosive things, my friend was miner in military, he installed 2 MRUDS in his yard, i just check it, it is similar to American Claymore mine. That friend is now in civilian demining business, funny.

Some people use to steal mines from first line, and use it for protection

We did have situations like that, with constant shelling and all of that, my house was hit by two grenades (mortar i think), almost every house was damaged,more or less.

Most of the situations was rescue, due to people been captured into damaged and destroyed house, there were some solidarity in the street for dealing that situation.


Our town had fire-rescue department like every normal town, but it fall apart like everything else.

Yes i often offer my medical skills to other, nothing special, mostly to "plug the hole" or advice somebody, so nothing sophisticated.Without enough equipment or supply you can do too much.

About your skills, i believe you as firefighter and probably first responder have good base to have some great skills for SHTF.

Upgrade it if you can, for example (maybe you already did, i don t know) specific rescue operations (hard terrain mission), or do more on training about mass casualty incidents,more trauma training, these are examples only.

To answer your question, no i don t think fire departments are ready for real SHTF (maybe in short period they are ready), neither the law, EMS or any other organized level of authority.


If normal circulation and transport of goods stops (reason may not be too important,war, terrorists,nature...) everything will crush,sooner or later, depends of the level of wealth and organization of your country-town, i have seen that.

I believe it gonna stand on ordinary man, family or smaller community in countryside to take care for every aspect of life.

레딧 AMA

정보에 관하여

My grandparents lived (and still live) in Sarajevo. I heard a lot of terrible stories about the war. I was there soon after war was over and I was shocked.
I grew up in Switzerland and still remember how my mother was hoping that her parents would call her. Every day, when the phone rang, she hoped that it was them... For 4 years. I still see my mother, crying like a baby, when after such a long time a letter arrived. It was from my grandmother, writing that they are okay and that my aunt could escape to Zagreb (Croatia).
I have one question: Did you have a television or any other form of information? My grandfather told me the only source they had was what other people told or radio, if they had electricity. It must me horrible to not know what's going on...
  • I had television, but i have use it to plug hole in my wall (shelling). We did not have electricity for long period. Some folks had radio, some other CB, battery operated, but it was rare. Real information was rare.
After the war was there anything you found out, world-news related that surprised you that you had not known about during the war due to lack of information?
  • One big problem in war was that there was no reliable information about anything. One day word on street was it will be over in two days and then nothing happened for weeks for example.
    Not knowing what is going on makes everything much worse. After war there were no big surprises in news. I didn't care anyway because I had other important things to do and rebuild my life.
Hey man, thanks for the AMA, I had a couple quick questions for you.
Did you guys have any idea at all where the 'front lines' were or was information about military advances just passed along word of mouth? Also, I am interested in the coverage of politics in the media at the time, could you give a short description of how your TV and radio stations covered the build up to war? (i.e. did you see it as biased, neutral, inciting, etc.) Also were you able to pick up radio and television stations from say, Belgrade or inside Serbia as well as your local stations before the war? Thanks.
  • Media pushed hate before everything happened. Documentaries how other groups were different and old enemies and all this stuff. Each group watched their own TV stations to get more of the messages they wanted.
    Frontlines shifted back and forth but we usually knew where the fighting was going on. There were also some more natural objects that created fighting areas.

전쟁 전의 기억에 관하여

My boyfriend and his family left Bosnia when he was only a little boy because of the threat of war. I can't imagine what hell you lived through, but I thank the man who helped his family escape everyday.
Anyway, do you remember life before the war? How old were you when it all happened?
  • Yes, he was smart, or he had a luck. I was a young man, 18-19 when that started. Of course i remember time before the war. Comparing to war it looked like paradise. Normal decent life.

피난하지 않은 이유

Why did you continue living there? Why didn't you flee to a different country and try to start a new life?
  • I left city after war ended with a plastic bag and went to relatives who lived in rural area. I had nothing, the whole country was in ruins. Many people did leave but I made the mistake and not leave. I still trusted politicans that everything will be rebuild and be like before. This did not happen.

전쟁의 일상

  • Actually city was broken in something like lot of street communities, in my street (15 or 20 houses) we organized patrols (5 armed man every night) to watch on gangs or enemies.

We traded things between people in that street, 5 miles from my street there was one street with something like organized traders, but it was to dangerous to go there, it worked only during the nighttime (during the day it was sniper alley) and you had more chance to be robed there than to trade, i used that street only 2 times, and belive me, only when i am really need something bad. 

What was a typical day for you? I assume that a "typical day" at the start was quite different to one towards the end... hearing both would be interesting.
  • It was get up and get to local hangout a few houses away where people from neighbourhood often gathered. It was place to get any kind of news or information if there is any but that was mostly rumors. Nobody had good information. Then I went to find useful things. Useful things were everything that could be traded or burned or used to make our place better. At that time there was little trash because everything was reused. This was typical day. I came back or had to stay hidden somewhere if it was too dangerous to come back at same night. (We only got out at night because during day snipers made streets too dangerous).
Would you go out alone to look for things, or with someone else/as a group? Did you feel in danger when out like this? As in, could you walk the streets freely or did you have to take a lot of care?
  • We went in small groups 2-3 people and went from house to house. Most houses had holes in walls to move through city without going on streets.
1. Did members in your family played any specific roles to help each other survive? Like a farmer, fighter, trader, if so what was yours? (This a serious question, I'm not trying to offend you thinking the war was a video game)
2. Was there a point where gangs tried to attack your family or your house?
3. Was there situations where people 'tricked' others into thinking they needed help, and end up getting ambushed by gangs?
4. You said there was strength in numbers. Did other families including yours band together to help and protect each other?
  • 1. oman stayed mostly in the house and took care of house stuff and looked after younger members of group. Typical roles automatically happened. We all tried out best to help. I went out a lot to get anything useful.
    2. Several times but they never made it, to our luck the big gangs did not try
    3. Often, you can not trust anyone. We tried to stay hidden even when moving from house to house (we did not use streets).
    4. If you are alone and get sick and can not leave the house to find food or other things you need you die. More people helped in many ways. More defenders was just one part.
What was your occupation before the war and what is it now?
How did your (or other) groups form? Did you have a leader?
Did you accept people and families to the group based on their skills, resources?
What was the strategy behind defending the place your group took shelter in? Booby traps? Watch guards etc.?
  • I was in medical field, then and now too. People look for secure places, and gathered by families, to most secured houses. Priority was blood, i mean family members, later of course lot of different skills become important. Constant shelling and lack of any kind of real law required from us to be always on watch.
Did you experience any instances of altruism, or people helping each other, outside of the small family units?
  • Yes in the first days, but when people realized this is not over soon things changed fast.
How did you form your 'group'? Was it just family and friends or neighbours?
How did you establish your 'base'? Was it just the house you used to own, or did you 'aquire' a house that was easier to defend at some point?
Where did you get food from?
  • They were all relatives that
    come to my house because it was best for defense
    we eat everything we could. Its long story but we had some goods to trade for things (we had local alcohol). Later on the food drops became more important.
why did you want to survive, I know if I was there I would shot shot myself in the head after a month of the shit you went though, what kept you going basically.
  • Some people gave up, locked themselves in and just died. Some people killed themselves and family (one case was poisoning I know of).
    I had to take care of my family, we had children and woman there and I was young man and had to help them get resources, supplies etc whatever useful I could find.
    After some time even worst situation becomes "normal".
that makes alot of sense and another question I forgot to ask was how often did you see people "enjoying" it you know being able to run around pillaging and lighting houses on fire and such.
  • Some people got power crazy. Without rules and with weapons you can live out your fantasies, no matter how bad they are.

전후 상황에 관하여

How did you manage to survive all of this?
What effect has the war had on your personality?
How is your country doing now?
  • By doing whatever i have to do, it was not easy but i survive. To live without proper food, running water, no electricity, and in situation where you are do not know who is your enemy takes some mind changes. After you get yourself in "routine" of that you manage to live day by day. All that changed me mostly in away that I know now that bad things can happen to anyone and anywhere. And you need to be prepared for that. My country is doing bad, corrupt political system, 45% unemployment, everything is going down.
Can you mention something you did that you regret to this day?
  • I regret lot of things, but I really regret that i did not leave this region before everything happened.

민족감정

I have a lot of respect for you. I studied this quite a bit at university so if you dont mind I have a few questions?
1. Do you remember in the time leading up to the war how the ethnic differences were highlighted as problems when they were not, for example I read about the rape of a Serbian girl by a Bosnian man, it had nothing to do with thier ethnic identity, just the mans sick head, but the media and interest groups used this to show how Bosnians were evil, I read this happened for all sides. Is this true? Do you remember?
2. How have things been after, have communities managed to come back together despite the war or is there still a lot of suspicion, im talking on a local level, not on a national/political level.
3. You mentioned the US and thier support positively, what of the EU? Many criticise them for their failure to act at times, is there any positive thoughts about them? Is there any thoughts at all about them following the war?
Finally, thank you for sharing with reddit, its horrible that this happens but real life stories from people like you help remove the bullshit and lies from the political sphere and allow us to learn to act in the future more positively..
  • Thank you.
    1. I remember things that lead to war perfectly, and it is little complicated. In short, ethnic differences were brought "on surface" by some political elite, in order to produce hate, again in order to manipulate masses. If you want to do something big and radical, use fear from something or someone, gather the masses and manipulate with them. Mainstream media in that time ( just like mostly today too) was in their hands, so it was actually easy. So at the end you had chaos. Sick and bad people were everywhere, on every side. But fact is that some "sides" did more atrocities, more organized, planned.
    2. Now there is no war, but still there is a lot of hate, lot of people is killed, missing. In local communities people more or less trying to "work for a living" I mean people have basic problems like unemployment, insecurity, corruption etc. But very often political elites "reheat" hate trough media in order to rule trough fear from "other group". So in short war is ended, but there is no hope too much.
    3. I do not have positive opinion about EU in that time,other then some local actions that were made mostly by simple soldiers, or commanders enthusiasm or bravery (like saving kids from hospitals or similar) They did not have will and power to do anything big, and now it is same.
Serb here.
I don't know about Bosnia, but here, some of the old mentality forced during the war still sticks around. Parents pass it down to their children, etc. Instead of learning from their elders' mistakes, people of my age around here adopt their shitty mentality and there's a significant number of groups that make heroes out of murderous fucks, which, under normal circumstances, should be considered an embarrassment to their country. I suppose that stuff like this happens on a global scale, but witnessing it isn't pleasant at all.
I was curious about the general mentality in Bosnia today. It's safe to assume that there's still bad blood and old hatreds around over there too, but to what extent? How much have they diminished since the war?
  • It is same more or less here Japuteh. On one side there are kids who do not know what war is really about, then there are old guys in politics who are using that kids or young people for their causes. Nobody wants to listen to the guys who do know what war is all about, about people get killed, and other people get rich.
Another Serb here, I wholeheartedly agree. There is an issue with our mentality that prevents us from admitting our own mistakes (and I'm not just speaking of us the Serbs here, but all Balkan nations). Ratko Mladić is cherished even today. 20 years later there is really no true reconcillation in the Balkans - compare that to 1965 in Europe, where countries (including W. Germany) started uniting.
Things are moving in the right direction, though, but at a very, very slow pace. One day I would just like to be able to go to Dubrovnik and feel like at home - just like I used to when I was a kid (before the war) - without being constantly harassed or having my car destroyed.
The political elite in this country (and I'm guessing in other Balkan countries as well) has all but disappeared. There is no clear "leader" of a country, no one to put us on the right path of the reconciliation and final peace. Bosnia is still a political mess without a real leader; efforts were made between Tadić and Josipović (SRB and HR presidents), but now that Tadić is no longer the president, what will happen in the future remains to be seen. I do not blame the today's politicians for this mess, because that's what we Serbs always do - we always blame someone else for our own faults. People do not realize that the politicians in this country come from within us, from our own nation - they did not land here from Mars.
Even today, there is massive pro-Kosovo propaganda. To all of you Serbs, as someone whose half of the family is from Kosovo, WHY are you for it remaining part of Serbia? Do you want a piece of land with 10x lower life standard to be reintegrated? Do you want 2+ million Albanians in Serbia? Do you want the cradle of crime to be part of your country again - all this just to satisfy some retarded "national pride"? We lost Kosovo in a fucking war. dealwithit.jpg
The only thing I dislike is when Serbs are automatically characterized as evil monsters, while the ones against Serbs are by default good. Crimes were committed on both sides.

Bosnian here. I guess that we were "promoted to saints" because of the genocide that Karadzic ordered. However I understand you, and I share your opinion. Alija wasn't the brightest of men, but then again, who in politics is?
I should also add that I feel no hatred towards neither croats or serbs, except if they still keep that old mentality with them.

Your story is amazing and I want to know, do you have any hatred for Serbs? Because we are given a lot of shit but not all of the people are like that, it is just the nationalistic douche bags. Like I am Serb but I still have a lot of friends from Croatia and Bosnia and respect both nations so I'm just curious about your view.
  • I look at people as individuals. If 9 bears want to eat me and 1 bear want to hug I run from bears when I see them but if nothing can harm me I take time to find out what kind of bear it is.
Do you hate Chetniks?
Would you hve joined the kla in order to repel the enemy forces? Did you witness war crimes?
  • I like good people and hate bad people, like normal human. I witnessed what people do when they fight for survival and that was ugly things. I did not see mass executions or anything like this but single killings of course.

미국에 대하여

Thank you for your reply.
I've seen a lot of USA hatred from many folks on the internet. They say the USA has done so many bad things in many different countries.
Above, you wrote:
[Anyway, war ended, again thanks to America (and again god bless USA for that). It is not important witch side had right in that war.]
Can you tell Reddit more about how you, and your fellow countrymen in general, feel about the USA?
  • I can not say in general, but most people I know no matter what religion are grateful because the US brought things back to normal, along with other nations.
I know you would like the OP's view, but for me and my family, the US, UN, NATO, and the rest of international community really botched the Balkans. Intervention was really necessary, but it came WAY to late. The UN and NATO showed a lot of cowardice in trying to stay neutral the entire time, frequently denying a lot of the atrocities or acting like there's no way anyone could help the Balkan people from their own "stupidity." To be fair, Clinton really pushed for intervention and recognized the humanitarian disaster that was occurring. That said, it was too little too late, although I am grateful the retaliation eventually came.
If you are interested in further reading about this conflict, as well as a decent story of the international effort, along with an interesting and engaging medium, I suggest picking up Safe Area Gorazde.[주 2] I usually recommend this graphic novel because it's unique and most people can't be bothered to read a dense political history book.

살인에 관하여

Did you have to kill to defend your family etc. How many? What were the situations?

  • As I said I had to defend family and my group. We were all together in one place and were attacked by gangs and people looking for food and supplies. There were shootings and other acts of violence.
    In war and chaotic situation like that you shoot to defend yourself and when it gets quiet on other side you do not run over to check, you are just happy its quiet.
i heard once that snipers targeting children was a huge problem. Was that really true?
  • snipers did not "discriminate" who to shoot. There are very bad stories from snipers I know. They had also problems sometimes with what they did.
Have you shot or killed anyone than, and why? I'm from a balkan country aswell, and remember some of the fights for our country. But compared to you, that was nothing! -Have you watched your family members die, or they just didn't return home?
  • In event that long, in event that includes so much victims and shootings and everything that goes with that, things like food shortages, hunger etc i did everything to survive, and I can say that I have seen everything.
    I saw people get stabbed, shot and blown up with shells. After some time this became "normal". People did not bury all victims. I was also involved in things like shootings, thats all I can say about this.

총기에 관하여

Did you have an AK or an M70? :)
  • Ak47 with folding stock
Was gun ownership common among civilians before the war? Was it regulated, were firearms registered with the authorities? How difficult would have been getting an AK after the shit hit the fan?
  • No, it was not so common because law. It was not so easy to get license. Also people did not needed it too much. When everything started it was easier in a way to get weapon trough trade, buying, stealing, or joining some of the forces.
What do yo have to say about those that think Americans are wrong for owning guns?
  • If you can trust your government then you do not need guns. I stopped trust any government long time ago.
I'd like to apologize for the over-curious "Did you kill someone" questions. They're naturally the first thing that comes to mind for many, but for those who have been in the situation its much more complex than yes or no. Maybe because we have to make it complex, to simplify the answer "Am I a killer" into a simple yes or no drastically changes perception of yourself and others.
My father served in the Indian army for the Kargil War, and as a child I asked him about it often. Most often trying to make him admit he killed someone. To this day he never told me yes or no, but I see now that his own kid questioning if he killed people hurt him deeply.
You did what you had to do for yourself and your family
  • Thank you. People who believe that survival is only about being the nice hero are wrong. It is about making very hard decisions.

동물에 관하여

This might be an odd question, but I've always wondered: What happens to pets in these situations? Do people try to hold on to them for comfort, do they become food, etc?
How would care package drops go? Would there be a free for all to get it, or would they be distributed equally throughout the community?
  • It's not odd question, its common question I get. I wrote about it here: http://shtfschool.com/security/dogs-in-violent-survival-situations/
    MRE's got dropped on one area we all knew it would drop and then we had to get as much as we can. we knew approximate time of drops in late night / early morning. Sometimes people got crushed by big palettes that were dropped (you can not see them if its completely dark), enemies shot at the place because they knew even if it was dark that people were there and gangs fought for the drops. So getting the help was hard too.

좋았던 기억에 관하여

Were there any random moments of happiness or normalcy that occured during that time?
  • Of course, not too much and to often. But I think because it was rare we enjoyed more in some simple things. Smoking a real cigarette while being in safer location or simply listening to music are examples. At that time we lived like we could die tomorrow because that was the case.
When you couldn't get a real cigarette, what did you smoke as a makeshift substitute?
  • We used dried leafs from linden tree.
Ok.. I might sound insensitive but I just wanted to know - What, if any, would you call the single worst moment/time of your experience and what would be the happiest moment during your ordeal?
I'm really blown away by this AMA and hope you or anyone else doesn't have to go through that again and hopefully your blog and AMA will help people prepare/know what to expect, should the situation arise..
  • That's why I post here. I hope more people start to prepare and learn to take care without government help.
    Best moment was when it was over and one of the worst when I saw / heard a guy getting tortured and I was hiding nearby and could not run away so I had to sit and was unable to do anything.

물자에 관하여

위생에 관하여

How did you poop?
  • Near our house was some place that had higher walls around (from other houses) so it was safe from snipers. We made holes in the ground and that was that. Some rags were used to clean.
Wow, thanks for answering.
  • It is important question. Many people also died from hygiene related problems. We were lucky to have separate area for toilette things. Many other did this in part of their house.

의료에 관하여

With your experience in this, I'd like to ask what items were the most useful/needed in that situation?
  • Medicine and antibotics were very valuable. Small cuts killed people because they got infected. For me tools to scavenge and gather fire wood or extract other things we needed from abandoned houses were very valuable and of course weapons and ammunition.

연료

With fuel scarce, how did you decide what to burn for warmth?
  • We burned everything we could. We took out door frames and burned them for example.

미래의 정세

Is there anything in the current situation in Europe that looks like it could destabalize the region enough to go into war again? If so, are you prepared for that possibility?
Thanks for answering all this man, it sucks that this is a thing that any human can talk about with knowledge.
  • I don't think this is the case with Europe. In my country things do not look good but it wasnt good for long time. Northern Europe looks more stable than this area here, but before war comes again to all of Europe I think some more things have to happen and not just Euro crisis.
    Back in 90s, goverment played their power games and forgot about us the citizen. Now here most people prepare and know they have to take care of themselves.
    My advice is: Do not rely on government and make sure you can take care of yourself and loved ones on your own.
What do you think is the way to a peaceful world? Do you have any ideas?
  • More education for people. People have to learn to use their head and what really matters in life. It is not money and power.

생존 대비

Your experience now has you prepared and knowledgeable about what to do. So for all of us who may unfortunately face a similar situation at some point in our lives where governments collapse, civil war begins or our areas become lawless:
What should we do? What would you do, how would you prepare?
  • Start learning about survival and preparedness. Have food and supplies for several weeks / months at home.
What three pieces of advice would you give to people living in America that have to do with being prepared for a SHTF situation, such as the one you were in?
  • Know when to leave and than leave without looking back or wasting time.
    What you know is more important than your equipment.
    Forget Rambo and action movies. Hide.
do you feel that you are more prepared by going through this experience if another SHTF situation happens(with out gear e.g on vacation)?
  • Even without my supplies nobody can take my experience from me and that is big part of survival.
How do you keep the good inside you and not become a gang member?
  • Prepare yourself and learn everything you need to know to survive.

다른 증언들

My father, mother and sister along with a dozen other relatives lived in Sarajevo during the siege. Because my sister was 4 years old and my mother had relatives in Macedonia they decided it would be best to move in Skopje with my grandparents. They left in '93 I think with a direct plane from Sarajevo to Skopje.( I was born 2 years later. ) Anyways, my father stayed in the apartment to pick up some stuff and a few days later he was supposed to catch a ride to Skopje.
But some Serbian sniper shot my father while he was standing next to the window in the apartment. Luckily the bullet only hit him in the middle of his arm and made a hole. He quickly ran to the neighbors and they took him to the hospital. My father still laughs when he tells me this story because in the hospital they took skin from his butt to put on his arm due to the skin that was missing from the bullet. There were new interns at the hospital and the doctor walks in and says: "You don't mind if they watch do you?". Then he does a check up on the skin...10 interns just standing there looking at my father's butt..
Anyways a few weeks later he was sent to Skopje as a civilian casualty. He didn't take anything with him. So when the war was over they go back only to see the building they used to live in completely burned and our apartment robbed and a bunch of hobos living there. After that, they decided it would be best to live in Skopje.
For anyone wondering I went with my family to the apartment in Sarajevo in 2003 and the place was a mess. People were selling rats they caught in the building. But I was there again in 2009 and Sarajevo is now more beautiful then ever. Every hole in the wall there was or ruined buildings are now repaired.
tl;dr: My father, a civilian was shot by a sniper. My family left their entire life just because of the war.

I was born in Bosnia in '91 so I don't remember much about the war but my mother and older siblings do. My father became very depressed and eventually committed suicide after we moved to Holland. He couldn't let go of the time in Bosnia before the war and sadly, it made him not want to live anymore. I have to say, I consider myself very lucky for how things turned out. It is weird for me because there is no place where I truly belong. I'm not really Dutch and no one sees me as Dutch. But when I'm in Bosnia or Croatia, they don't consider me as one of them, because I was so young.
Anyway, thank you for telling your story. I can't imagine how hard it was and you are a very, very brave man.

Thank you for the story. I'll share bits of mine.
I was 6 years of age when the war broke out. My family lived in Zenica (a predominantly Muslim city), but they were all of Serbian ancestry. Being of such young age, I didn't understand the religious differences between the three nationalities (thankfully, my parents were very secular, and today I'm an atheist) nor the reasoning for the war. All I knew was, that most of my friends whom I played with in the street simply stopped talking to me. Later I discovered that they were Muslim. A man that worked with my father at a certain point pulled a gun on my head in the middle of the street, yelling obscenities. During one night, the windshield on our car was busted. My father was receiving death threats, as well as threatening to rape my sister. Clearly, it was time to leave.
So, we left for Serbia, which turned out to be the biggest shit-hole you can imagine. We had lost everything we had (our life savings were in a bank owned by Jezda, which crashed...another famous story from back then). The government didn't provide any assistance at all. I had no citizenship as Yugoslavia was no more, and I was born in Bosnia, so we were ineligible for any financial aids. The only means of assistance was via Red Cross, where you had to stand in line for hours upon hours to receive a few pounds of flour.
My grandparents stayed in Zenica, and we heard from them every few months via letters. Most of them were filled with similar horror stories like the OP shared. Fortunately, Zenica was one of the few cities were there were no major fights, and their Muslim neighbors had no animosity towards them and they helped out as much as they could. I have nothing but utter most respect and gratitude for those people. My grandparents joined us in Serbia at a later time.
My parents struggled finding a job, and we kept moving from city to city, living in damp places without furniture and beds. We barely had any food on the table from day to day. Unfortunately, this took a heavy toll on my father, who suffered from severe depression. He died of a heart attack at a fairly young age (44).
To cut the story short, we immigrated to the US a few years later, and here I am now. I have traveled to both countries (and Croatia) a few times in the past decade. The situation is still bad. People are filled with hate and misery, and ignorance is still rampant in each region. I hope things get better, but I think the Balkans needs a few more decades for any major improvements.

This war was the reason why I had to leave Bosnia at the age of 3, and eventually got a nice life here in the US. Always wonder how life would have turned out if there wasn't a war, and my family and I remained there.

I was born in Austria after most of the fighting in this war was over, but my parents were stuck in Sarajevo in the middle of some of the nastiest fighting for almost an entire year. Later, they were able to leave for Austria and then for the USA. My mom told me that as she was walking home after trying to find food one day, she turned a corner and bumped into another person walking. Just as she did, a sniper bullet went through her jacket sleeve and barely missed her. If they hadn't bumped into each other at that moment, one of them would have probably died that day. My dad was almost killed by a grenade that went into their home the same week- he was in the bathroom and it exploded in the bedroom where had been just a minute before. It's a little scary thinking that both of my parents could have died and I would never have been born.

I went to high school with a lot of serbs, croatians and bosnians, they were all good friends but their parents still kinda held grudges, overall all three were very hospitable and very nice ppl. Idk if it's accurate but when I saw the movie saviour I thought it kinda showed exactly what you said OP, that each side had its bad ppl, there was not necessarily one belligerent side. But the stories some of my friends had were insane, like you said most had to scavenge and most kept a good stock of firearms either inherited or stolen from military caches.

Im actually on holiday in Bosnia Right now My family is originally from here and went through pretty much the same thing. My Dad has told me stories of the war and of things he had to do not only to protect his family but other families in the area. He would tell me the same things you mentioned it really opens my eyes that not only my family went through these things and it saddens me to know how much life was taken for nothing. Love the post

부연 설명

  1. ↑ 저자는 SHTF situation이라고 표현함
  2. ↑ 안전지대 고라즈데, 조 사코, 2002, 국내출판 2004
Retrieved from "https://femiwiki.com/index.php?title=보스니아_전쟁/생존기&oldid=310611"